This is a summary of what we have learned so far and my personal opinions about motorhomes and the motorhome market. As such it is a living document and will change from time to time as our experience grows and the market changes.

My negative comments about assorted products could be considered inflammatory, however it is not my intention to insult anybody that owns those products. Rather those comments are directed at a new or less experienced buyer in the market for a new or used motorhome and that is info I have gained from other owners or my own research. I simply hope my experience can help you as a new buyer make a more informed choice.

Our Motorhoming History:

In 2010 we bought a used 2006 Fleetwood Discovery diesel pusher knowing virtually nothing about the lifestyle or the products. Since then we have learned a lot, been on several factory tours, and had many real world experiences as full time owners.

In anticipation of going full time, early in 2013 we sold the Discovery and bought a 2013 Entegra Aspire. In September of 2013 we sold the house and went full time. In regard to our timing of the coach purchase, it turned out to be a smart move to buy the new coach BEFORE we sold the house, that made problem resolution on the new coach much less complex.

The learning continues and knowing what we know now about coaches we may (or may not) have done things differently. Today, if I was a new to the market shopper for a Class A motorhome, here are some of my viewpoints on the products out there and what I would want to tell myself:

Diesel vs. Gas:

Diesel. We started with a diesel and there’s no going back for us. I know people do it, but gas chassis are less suited to luxury full timing IMO because they don’t have the weight bearing capacity of a diesel. That means less luxury items like tile and real wood and maybe that’s OK. But most of all it means a smaller cargo carrying capacity (CCC) and a full timer is generally going to have more “stuff” and therefore more weight. Also, the largest gas units are less than 40′ and for two people looking for somewhat upscale amenities,  a rig under 40′ may not be satisfactory. In addition there are very few gas floor plans with opposing slides. On those that exist, the passenger slide will be small because of the entry door location.

Therefore the rest of this article references diesel power motorhomes only.

Buying a New Coach:

Everyone will tell you this and it’s true – brand new coaches take a while to work the bugs out. But at least you know what you have and the devil you know is usually better than one you don’t.

Never pay MSRP, that number is ridiculous. Dealer margin on motorhomes is generally very high (40%?) You should be able to easily negotiate to about 30% off MSRP. In our case in late 2012 we negotiated a deal that ended up around 34% off of MSRP. Some say they have done even better, but today with demand high it is probably more difficult to get that good of a discount.

Buying a Used Coach:

A good used coach can have a significant price advantage and IF the owner was meticulous, all the bugs will be worked out for you. The trouble is how would you know that if you did not personally know the owner or coach? For sure there are some lemons and/or abused used coaches out there. There are also some puff units. Most will be somewhere in between so do your homework and get all the unbiased help that you can.

If you have an opportunity to buy a unit from someone you know and there is valid info that they were a conscientious owner, that is a preferable situation. But if buying from a dealer try and seek out the previous owner and see if you can find out some of the history, both good and bad. At the very least try to get your hands on all the service records.

Unfortunately though, some dealers will intentionally dispose of that valuable info. That leaves you in a position of not knowing ANY service history, which as we found out with our Fleetwood Discovery is a major drawback and may cause you to spend more on service than you need to. So try to make the dealer perform a FULL service interval commensurate with the age of the unit. That would include engine oil and filter changes, fuel filters, air cleaner, hydraulic filters, air dryer service, full chassis lube, coalescing filters, wheel hub oil, transmission fluids and filters, etc. This way you have a service baseline to start with. Most service items are time sensitive (in addition to miles) and can cause some serious damage if not attended to (examples are disintegrating air filters destroying the turbo, or bad desiccant in the air dryer flooding your brake lines with water). The major service point is usually something like 5 years/100K miles, so if the coach is older than that and there are no records, try to get the dealer to agree to do the major service interval or negotiate around $1500-$2000 to cover that cost. You can find out what items need to be serviced by visiting the chassis maker website or checking with an owners club. Freightliner, Spartan, etc.

Also don’t forget to negotiate service for the generator. And if you are buying a rig with a diesel hydronic heater, negotiate service for that as well.

Dealing with a Dealer:

Most dealers are going to tell you what you want to hear, but their objective is to make money and with few exceptions they really don’t care what happens to you. No matter what the dealer promises you, or how long a warranty they offer, or if the coach is new or used, you should always go thru your purchase with a fine tooth comb and try and find as many problems as you can, BEFORE you close your deal and give them the lions share of your money. DO NOT close until those items are fixed. I know that sounds backwards and a lot of dealers are going to balk at it, but try and hold your ground. This is particularly important if you are a full timer and swapping coaches on the spot. Here’s why.

I hear stories all the time about people sitting on the dealer lot for weeks (even months!) after the sale trying to get things fixed. Especially in FL during the winter! If you have a house to live in, maybe leaving your brand new (or new to you) coach for a few weeks is acceptable, but what will you do if you are full time?  What if you closed the deal and traded your old coach and then you found out your new one needs repairs (that is a VERY common situation unfortunately). Where are you going to live during the potentially very long time period that those repairs will take? Remember the dealer now has your money so you are out of the “friendly” sales experience and thrust into the reality of the much leads accommodating service experience. Is the dealer going to pay for a hotel room for you? Maybe, but probably not. They are betting that you will get fed up and move on anyway letting them off the hook.

But, if you force them to fix the problems you found BEFORE you close, you will go to the head of the repair queue because they want your money. When the repairs are finally done, try to make sure they are done right. We spent almost two weeks at Lazy Days Tampa May 2015 for eight warranty items. They botched all but one. We finally gave up and had Entegra take care of them later on, but what if you bought a used coach, are not within the manufacturers warranty and don’t have that option?

Buying privately or from consignment:

If you have a trade:

Coach Specs and Features:

With our Aspire we are currently in the low to mid range diesel “luxury” market and I would not move down from there (guess we are a little spoiled). Nor would I move up too much as there are some bling items we don’t really want (like motorized shades on every window). The changes I would consider would be mostly chassis related, such as IFS (Independent Front Suspension) and perhaps a diesel (instead of propane) hydronic heating system.

Here are some items to consider that most buyers don’t think about until after the sale:

• Sufficient CCC – Cargo Carrying Capacity. Some coaches are so overloaded with heavy luxury items like tile and real wood, there is almost no capacity left for your “stuff”! Even diesel units! Be sure to find out this number, it should be on a tag somewhere behind the driver seat. The CCC number will need to include your own weight, your fuel weight with a full tank, plus any other tankage you carry such as water and propane. After you subtract out all those items the remaining capacity silk be for your “stuff”, at least theoretically (see the next item). As a point of reference, we have calculated that we carry about 3500 pounds of “stuff” including ourselves (but not fuel and tankage) and we feel we are pretty lean at this point in regard to quantity of stuff. IMO 4000 pounds of CCC would be the absolute bare minimum for a full timer, 5000-6000 and higher would be best. Note the next item and how it relates to CCC.
• Front Axle Weight Capacity – with only two tires in the front, this axle can more easily be overloaded, particularly on a tag axle coach. Find out the weight capacity of that axle in the chassis specs and get the coach weighed, perhaps during your test drive. Even if you can’t get a four corner weigh, just front and rear will do. Ideally the fuel tank is near full and the coach is empty of any stuff, but in any case make note of the fill level of fuel, water, black, gray and propane tanks. Driver and passenger should also be aboard during the weighing. From the scale info see how much room you have on the front axle before you exceed the rating. Now compare that to the CCC. Your ACTUAL CCC will probably be less than the listed value because of the limit on the front axle. True CCC will be closer to the difference between the actual weight from the scale and the front axle weight limit. Point is the listed CCC can be theoretical and not practical due to limits on the front axle weight rating. As an example, we have a 10,000 pound CCC on our Aspire. However we have only a 14,600 pound front axle weight rating. We are near the limit on our front axle with only 3500 pounds of cargo when the fuel tank is full. Most of our cargo storage space is in front of the rear axle because that’s where the cargo bays are. Our rear and tag axles have plenty of excess capacity but it is only usable if that weight is placed on or behind the rear axles. Floor plan will also have a big impact on weight distribution – think about a coach with a galley towards the front vs. one closer to the rear.
• Slides Retracted – when you first look at a coach the slides will be fully extended and there will be lots of room. It’s equally important to check that there is enough room when the slides are retracted too. At a minimum you should be able to get from the front to the toilet unimpeded. If you will travel often with guests, consider if there is sufficient and comfortable seating for them.

Some of the systems we would prefer to have on board are as follows:

• Hydronic heat (and hot water) such as Aquahot, Oasis or Precision Temp. Quiet, safe, more comfortable and probably more efficient than hot air systems. Basically a hot water boiler producing heat similar to hot water baseboard in a house. Hydronic systems are preferred on a motorhome for the same reasons they are preferred in a house. Hot water production is similar to “instantaneous” hot water on a domestic boiler. Hydronic units can run on diesel or propane. Propane requires almost no maintenance but that is another fuel you need to carry and the propane tank takes up space. Diesel eliminates the need for a propane tank and increases storage but the combustion from the boiler can be smelly and noisy, plus they require frequent maintenance. Both types also have electric elements but electric usually cannot develop as many BTU’s as the fuel burner, so fuel must be used for effective heating in cold climates. However, electric works just fine for general hot water consumption with the possible exception of long hot showers. These units are found on most coaches in the mid luxury range. I like our propane unit on the Aspire but I think I would give an edge to the diesel model mainly to gain the storage space and eliminate needing to buy propane from time to time.
• Independent Front Suspension (IFS) vs. a rigid front axle. Virtually ALL modern automobiles use IFS. IFS adds complexity and significant cost to a motorhome chassis. Improves the ride somewhat on bumpy roads and minimizes “rocking” when navigating uneven terrain since each front wheel can move without affecting the other. Some refuse to own a coach without it, others view it as just a nice to have or consider it a foolish expense based on the relatively small amount of time they spend driving. IFS will have higher maintenance costs over time due to complexity. Our Aspire does not have IFS but has a rigid axle. I did not feel the big increase in cost for the next model with IFS would be worth it. Almost all higher end coaches have it and if I were looking at used coaches I would be looking for it, but probably not let it be a deal breaker.
• Multiplex lighting – this is basically a “network” for the interior coach lighting. Saves a lot of wire and makes it easy to turn on a single light from multiple locations or multiple lights from a single location. Generally pretty reliable. Potential to be automated. Not a deal breaker.
• Residential type fridge – much bigger than a propane fridge. Much safer than a propane fridge (they can overheat and catch on fire, particularly if the ammonia based refrigerant leaks out). Much less expensive to replace or service than a propane fridge. Icemaker usually standard. Generally mandatory for an all electric coach. Downsides are increased DC power consumption and much less efficiency than say a marine type compressor style fridge like a NovaKool. So may not be a good choice for long term off the grid boondockers, but if you are plugged in (or running the engine) the majority of the time it is a no-brainer. All coaches with household fridges need an inverter to power it since they run on 120 volts (the marine style fridges like the NovaKool run directly on 12 volts). The inverter is ideally a pure sine wave model which is better suited to running motors like the fridge compressor. The coach battery bank should be at the very least 400 Amp-hours (4 golf cart batteries) and more like 600 Amp-hours or better (6 golf cart batteries). Funny that coach builders tout the residential fridge as a luxury option, but assuming all coaches have an inverter anyway, I’m sure it is cheaper to install than a propane fridge. Propane fridge is equal or more expensive and requires plumbing, roof and wall vents, etc. Residential fridge is electric and only requires 120volts (inverter). No plumbing or venting needed.
• Stacked Washer/Dryer – we had a combo washer/dryer on our Discovery and it was OK but had its limits. The stacked unit we have now is far superior and for full timers who feel it is a gross waste of their time going to the laundromat, this is a mandatory item. Yes they take up a lot of space, but that’s the price you pay for the convenience.
• Energy Management System – still lots of campgrounds with 30A service and an Energy Management System helps keep the pedestal breaker from tripping on these power hungry 50A coaches. It sheds loads as needed as the power consumed approaches the 30A limit. Normally the hot water heater is the first to be shut off electrically, then usually the AC units. A big nuisance saver.
• 2010 emissions – any coach with a DEF tank and SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction). Believe it or not these newer models get superior fuel economy to those prior to 2010. Our 300hp 24,000 pound 39′ Discovery got about 6.5mpg overall, our 450hp 40,000 pound 43′ Aspire gets well over 8.5 mpg. One of the reasons is that the EGR system can now be optimized. In pre-2010 coaches EGR detuning was done to help meet pre-2010 emissions with the result being less efficient engine performance. Nothing wrong with most pre-2010 diesels but don’t let anyone tell you the fuel economy is better than the post 2010 coaches because of emission controls. SCR engines have an almost perfectly clean exhaust. Pre-2010 models that don’t have SCR however are generally less complex so that is a plus.
• Non-physical contact tank gauges like See Level for the fresh, gray and black tanks. These tend to be much more reliable since they sense levels thru the tank walls and never need to make contact with the tank contents. They do however still require good tank maintenance. Sludge on the tank walls will impede their proper operation.
• Exterior Window awnings – makes a huge difference in hot climates keeping down the heat gain.
• Generator – almost ubiquitous, but for any all electric coach it is an pretty much a necessity if you spend any time away from a 50 A outlet. Ideally you want one on a slide out tray to make servicing easier. Non-slide out gensets like on our Discovery would accept basic service from underneath, but other service items (such as the fan belt) would require dropping the unit out of the coach to get at it – a difficult and expensive proposition. An all electric coach may require a larger generator. A 12kW genset is equal to 50A shorepower. We have a 10kW genset on our Aspire and have never had any capacity issues.
• Slide Rooms – at a minimum opposing main living area slides, this makes a coach very roomy. Opposing slides in the bedroom also increase space dramatically. Some people shun slides citing reliability issues, but for properly sized slides problems are relatively rare on a well built coach. The benefits far outweigh the drawbacks. However, there are slide configurations that should be avoided:
  • One thing to watch for are heavy items installed on a “ramp” slide. On most coaches at least one of the slides “ramps” down when going out so the floor is flush on that side. The ramp slide should not have the fridge or kitchen counter on it as all that weight adds a lot of strain when the slide comes in and has to go uphill. Non ramp slides generally roll flat and weight is less of an issue.
  • The other slide configuration I would avoid is the “Full Wall” slide configuration. On most brands, I would not buy a coach with a full wall slide, they are problematic for at least these two reasons:
    • First and foremost the hole in the side of the “box” is huge and creates a significant structural deficiency in the frame of the coach. A massive header is required to properly support the roof with such a long span – if the header is done properly that reduces the height of the slide and therefore the size of any storage cabinets that are typically installed there. I have heard that on many coaches the header is inadequate and the roof sags. A clever four slide floorplan will give the same affect as a “full wall” slide and still properly support the roof without the need for a big header.
    • The second reason is the weight. Electric “Full Wall” slides must have two motors and they must somehow be synchronized – this can cause a LOT of issues. Lately I have heard companies like Newmar are going back to hydraulic for the full wall slides.

Systems I would avoid:

• Electric shades. The front shade makes sense to be electric, the others do not. Think about it, the sun is coming in the window you are sitting next to – does it make more sense to reach up and pull down the day shade or get up and walk to the wall switch? I think this is a case of mis-guided automation. Even worse some of the electric shade implementations only function in groups, so it is not possible to control them individually. In some cases too they might be configured so they can only be completely open or completely shut with no in-between. On top of that check out the forums in regard to burnt out shade motors.
• Likewise other things that are electrified needlessly. Motor access hatches for example. How often does the motor hatch get opened? Now it’s just another thing that can break, and what if it does so when you go to check the oil or something? Electric steps on the other hand are almost a necessity and I can see possibly a motorized generator slide since they are heavy beasts.
• Solar Panels. Most coach maker solar systems are marketing designed, that is, they are bought by customers who really don’t know what they are buying. A serious boondocker will want solar panels, BUT they will want a custom system carefully designed to meet their specific needs. The factory installed solar installations I have seen are not going to do that.  On any coach with a residential fridge the undersized solar systems that builders tend to install are generally only going to increase the time between generator runs by a few hours. The only plus is that a coach in hibernation (all major systems shut down for storage) and stored outside should not have to worry about batteries going flat.
• Bling. Some of it is nice, like mood lighting, but shiny wood and mirrored ceilings do little in my book except add weight and gaudiness.

Chassis brand

Many consider the ultimate chassis a “Prevost” which is basically a Canadian maker of bus chassis, but other bus makes can apply as well (Van Hool, etc). Note that Prevost does not make coaches although they may integrate some key items like slides to ensure structural integrity. A third party like Millenium buys the chassis and converts it to a coach, usually customized. These are typically million dollar plus products. Out of my league new, but might consider some older units if they had slides.

Also in or near this category are makers like Newell, Country Coach and Foretravel. All of those are actual coach builders and the chassis may be custom designed in house and/or similar to a bus chassis. Knowing what I know now, I think today I would look for a coach among those brands less than 10 years old at a good price and set aside some funds to modernize it. Country Coach however is out of business and might be hard to find parts for. Just heard that Winnebago bought out Country Coach assets, will need to wait and see on that one.

Among the other chassis brands are the now defunct Roadmaster (older Monaco/Holiday Rambler/Beaver/Safari products), DynoMax (older Country Coach) Freightliner and Spartan. Also Tiffin builds its own Powerglide chassis. There are others as well.

Roadmaster no longer exists, beware of models (Monaco/Holiday Rambler/etc.) around 2010 that tried to do the emission controls without using DEF and SCR.

Spartan is found on the mid to high level production coaches like Newmar Essex and King Aire and on the older top end Fleetwood (American Coach) products as well as all the 42′ and longer Entegra products and the new Foretravel Realm. Tiffin used to use them but has switched to their own Powerglide for high end products and Freightliner for others. Spartan is a smaller volume producer but has a rep for building a stronger and better riding chassis than Freightliner. The Spartan K2 and K3 are the big boys with 600HP engines, air leveling and a lot of other bells and whistles.

The lighter duty Spartan Mountain Master has a 450HP engine today and is what the Entegra Anthem and Aspire are built on. Even the highest end American Coaches (Fleetwood) have now gone to Freightliner much to the chagrin of new buyers, but the older units with Spartan chassis are probably in high demand.

Freightliner clearly has the biggest market share and is a class operation with good support and a good reputation, although some consider them to have cheapened the product with cost cutting strategies. I would not hesitate to buy a mid-level coach on a Freightliner but would be careful to research and test drive any newer high end coach on a Freightliner.

Another factor is coach builder modifications to a given chassis. For Example Entegra adds some significant bracing to make the chassis very stiff. American Coach as well does some serious engineering in their Liberty chassis to make it very rigid. Other coach builders maybe not so much – that will be the difference a couple years down the road in regard to creaks and groans and coach house integrity.

Coach brand

Well here’s where the fun begins. Lots of evolution here. For example, a Monaco of several years ago is not a Monaco of today. Around 2008 Monaco went chapter 11, then they came back and went chapter 11 again. They were bought out by Allied Specialty Vehicles a couple years ago and have risen from the ashes, but in name only. Today they are built on a Freightliner chassis designed to simulate the old Roadmaster and they are built on the same production line as Fleetwood and American Coach (who is also owned by Allied Specialty Vehicles since 2008 when they went chapter 11).

The only major companies that continued to flourish thru the 2008 recession are Tiffin, Winnebago/Itasca, Newmar & Jayco. That should tell you something. Jayco bought Travel Supreme in 2008 and now it is the successful Entegra product.

Winnebago/Itasca are the same coach with different names and probably trim levels. Fleetwood is owned by the bean counter company Allied Specialty Vehicles and builds Fleetwood, American Coach, and recently Monaco/Holiday Rambler and Trek.

Entegra is the reincarnation of the once well regarded Travel Supreme and is owned by Jayco. Entegra’s are built in a dedicated production facility and retain many of the former Travel Supreme production processes and employees. Newmar and Tiffin are healthy, well regarded and experienced builders.

Here is an article by Mark Quasius that should be interesting reading for a production coach buyer (new or used) in today’s market.

What would I buy?
Depends if new or used. Only talking Class A diesel coaches here, no other choice for us at this point.

New:

• Since I can’t afford a Newell, Entegra is my current top choice due to the over the top support and 2 year warranty. At this point I really feel that the 2 year warranty and first class treatment supersedes any other feature.
• Perhaps a Tiffin, as they have some innovative floor plans, although I am not totally thrilled with Tiffins construction quality (OSB floors, really?) and frequency of serious defects, but the after sale support by Bob Tiffin is legendary even though that probably means a two month stint in Red Bay.
• I like the engineering on the Fleetwood/American Coach, but the company attitude and after sale support leaves much to be desired. I would have to think long and hard about buying one new and have some assurances of support beyond the factory warranty.
• I generally like Newmar and they have been in the business for a long time, but I don’t think they are built near as well as Entegra, although after the sale support seems to be adequate. At this point they would be way at the end of my list if on it at all.
• I would definitely not buy a Winnebago
• I would most definitely not buy any Thor product – that product is crap as is the company attitude (ask a few owners about their ability to get warranty repairs completed).

Used:

• At this point I think I would keep my eye out for an older but well founded Newell, Foretravel or Country Coach (even Prevost). Particularly the Foretravel since they are still in business and likely to be less expensive than a Newell.
• Otherwise I would definitely consider used Entegra’s, but I suspect they are not going to be Tiffin-like and fix problems for second hand buyers beyond the two year warranty. Then again I am hearing of cases recently where they have made repairs beyond the two years.
• A well cared for Travel Supreme might be an excellent choice and support is still available via Entegra.
• I think Fleetwood/American Coach are generally very well engineered and built. I particularly like their aluminum framed floor and interlocking sidewall extrusions (vacubonded). I also like the engineering of the Liberty Chassis on the American Coach. The company attitude and after sale support however leaves much to be desired which is why I would only buy a well founded used unit, preferably on a Spartan.
• I would be leery of most Tiffin’s due to numerous quality issues, however if Bob Tiffin stays in the game most of those issues would be supported even for non-original buyers so if you have time to kill and don’t mind hanging out in Red Bay, AL this could be a good way to go. If you do buy a used Tiffin, jump thru hoops to find out what recalls were done/not done. Rotting wet bays and cracking roof radius sections are among the big ones.
• Newmar likewise, IMO, has some construction deficiencies but they do seem to provide some help with issues even for second hand owners, but my sense is not quite as liberally as Tiffin. Plus there are build practices and materials they use that I really don’t like that make them less durable over time.
• Older Winnebago’s might be OK, but of late they are producing some seriously deficient products.
• Monoco/Holiday Rambler/Beaver/Safari is defunct, but produced some nice high end coaches in their day, however I wonder what support is still available. Perhaps Allied Specialty Vehicles has resurrected some of that now that they own the brand, but I would do serious research on any of those. Also watch out for any models after Monoco went under the first time and Navistar got involved with ownership. I’d focus on the highest end products only (Dynasty, Navigator, etc.) well prior to 2010.
• I would completely avoid any Thor/Mandalay product (like the plague) as well as Coachmen.
• Don’t know enough about Forest River products, probably in the same class as the lower end Fleetwood, Tiffin, or Newmar products. They seem to have a good engineering philosophy if the Web site can be believed. Don’t have any intelligence as to how they treat new or used customers.
• There are other smaller brands that might deserve consideration, you would need to do your homework on any of those.